Sykes and McBucher Would Dodge This

This conversation between Chris Matthews and Pat Toomey about abortion from atrios. Come on Charlie, Jessica and the rest of you righties and anti-abortion goofy-heads, I’m curious to hear your answer. Oh, Jessica, just another example of something that won't be reported by the right-wing media pretenders.

Note: I removed all the crosstalk references.


MATTHEWS: Well, let‘s talk about the mainstream. Would you like to repeal or have a court overrule Roe v. Wade?

TOOMEY: Yes, I would. I think that that was clearly not a legitimate decision. It was a case where five (actually seven) Supreme Court justices decided that...

MATTHEWS: Yes, so you would like to get rid of—yes, so you basically would like to see...

TOOMEY: They decided they were going to pass a law.

MATTHEWS: Well, do you think the Supreme Court was wrong in saying a woman has a right to an abortion in the first six months of pregnancy?

TOOMEY: Yes, I think they were wrong to say that. I think that‘s not a legitimate decision. The Constitution is clearly silent on the issue of abortion. States had addressed this issue, and the Supreme Court decided it wanted to overrule the legislative bodies of all 50 states and so it did. It issued an edict.

MATTHEWS: If you go back to state‘s rights on abortion, would you support banning abortion in Pennsylvania?

TOOMEY: Yes, I would, yes.

MATTHEWS: In other words, if a woman had an abortion in Pennsylvania, what would you do to her?

TOOMEY: Well, you know, Chris...

MATTHEWS: I‘m serious. What would you do to her? You said you want to ban it. You want to use the law to outlaw abortion.

TOOMEY: That‘s right.

MATTHEWS: What would you do to a woman who had an abortion? What would you do to her?

TOOMEY: Oh, I think we would first look at the doctor who is performing the abortion and have some penalties.

MATTHEWS: Why? Why don‘t you go after the woman? Why don‘t you go after the woman? In any other situation of law and justice, you go after the person who perpetrates the act. If it‘s wrong to commit...

MATTHEWS: No, really. This is what the whole issue of abortion is and where all the B.S. comes into this argument. Are you willing to say that you would put a woman in prison for having an abortion?

TOOMEY: Chris, I‘m not sure what the penalty would be. I‘m saying...

MATTHEWS: Well, say what you want it to be.

MATTHEWS: You said it should be banned. Would you please stand up for what you believe?

TOOMEY: That‘s right.

MATTHEWS: If abortion is wrong and it‘s a crime and it‘s murder, tell me what the punishment should be.

TOOMEY: And I‘m telling you that there should be legal action taken against the doctor who performs it.

MATTHEWS: And?

TOOMEY: And we‘ve got to think through what we would do with regard to the woman.

MATTHEWS: What would you like to do?

TOOMEY: But, Chris, that doesn‘t change the fact...

MATTHEWS: You are running for the United States Senate.

MATTHEWS: And you‘ve said we ought to get rid of Roe v. Wade and you said that abortion should be banned in Pennsylvania, but you won‘t tell me what the penalty should be.

TOOMEY: That‘s right, Chris. Look, we can take things one step at a time. I think that the constitutional decision was invalid. It‘s perfectly OK to believe that these justices made up a right that doesn‘t exist in the Constitution without deciding exactly what the penalty should be under all circumstances.

MATTHEWS: You want to make up a law without a penalty. It‘s a crime without a penalty. I‘ve never heard of such a thing.

MATTHEWS: I‘m serious. This is the problem and the confusion over abortion rights in this country.

MATTHEWS: People on the far right side won‘t say what they‘ll do. They simply say they don‘t like the way things are now. What would you do?

TOOMEY: Well, if we overturn Roe vs. wade, one of the things we could do is leave it to states to make some decisions about this.

MATTHEWS: And what would you support Pennsylvania doing? You are running for senator from Pennsylvania. What should Pennsylvania do to women who decide to have an abortion? What would you do to them?

TOOMEY: Chris, I‘ve told you, I haven‘t figured out what I think we should be doing with

MATTHEWS: Well, shouldn‘t you figure out a few of these things before you run for office?

MATTHEWS: Shouldn‘t you make those basic decisions?

TOOMEY: I think my voting record is pretty clear. I have got a very long voting record. I have made a lot of decisions.And I think it‘s perfectly legitimate to say that one doesn‘t necessarily support this decision.

MATTHEWS: And what‘s Specter‘s position on abortion rights?

TOOMEY: Oh, is he a big advocate of abortion rights and taxpayer-funded abortion and all the rest, which is way outside the mainstream of the party.

MATTHEWS: OK, thank you very much, Congressman Pat Toomey. Thanks for playing HARDBALL. You may well win this one.

TOOMEY: All right.